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Whiteman Family

Whiteman Family in Rye, East Sussex

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Peter Whiteman
7 Nov 2018

Many thanks Kevin I understand there could of been 5 brothers in total the served Will buy the book Regards
Peter

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Kevin Regan
7 Nov 2018

You might want to get "The Brave Remembered - Battle at War 1914-1919 by George Kiloh from bookshops in Battle or from the Battle & District History Society. It goes into detail not only about James but also 2 brothers that survived, Charles Edwin and Stanley.

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Paul Whiteman
2 Nov 2018

Dear Peter,

Your grandfather, James Whiteman was my Great Uncle.

My wife and I have just paid a visit to the Somme battlefields and visited his grave (2nd time for myself) and I see there was a cross from Pete his grandson. This made me do a bit of digging, and a search on google brought up your message on the Rye message board.

I live in Broad Oak, Brede and have worked in Rye for over 30 years - now part time!

I would love to hear from you and find out what you know about our ancestor.

As you probably know there where a lot of siblings involved and it has not been easy tracing relatives.

My grandfather was Reginald, born in 1899 and was the youngest.

Hope to hear from you,

Paul

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Kevin Regan
22 Nov 2016

It's rather a broad title and perhaps Admin might consider splitting into the respective main family Names.

This is in regard to Albert Percy Whiteman, who is commemorated by Rye RBL in the Book of Remembrance. This is whay I provided them, and Paul, but may be of interest to other Whiteman researchers. Please add anything else tou know.
WHITEMAN, ALBERT PERCY. Rank: Leading Aircraftman. Service No: 334948.
Date of Death: 28/05/1940. Age: 42. Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force.
Panel Reference: Panel 24. Memorial: RUNNYMEDE MEMORIAL
Additional Information: Son of Mr. and Mrs. G. Whiteman, of Broad Oak, Rye, Sussex; husband of Edna May Whiteman, of Hastings, Sussex.

One of 32 RAF aircraftmen who drowned on "SS Abukir" (694 tons) when it was sunk by an E boat 8 miles off Ostend. The Egyptian ship Abukir operated by the Khedivial Mail Line (KML) came under British flag early in the Second World War and was managed by the General Steam Navigation Co. She was torpedoed and sunk by the German motor torpedo boat S-34 on May 28th, 1940, in the North Sea.
On the night of May 28 to 29 the Abukir left Ostend where it had evacuated 210 British troops and RAF servicemen, and an unknown number of Belgian Air Force personnel and British nuns from a convent near Brugges to cross to England. It was sunk by the Schnellboot S-34 under the command of Oblt.zur See Obermaier.
The attack began a few miles off the WESTHINDER buoy, three torpedoes were fired by the Schnellboot which missed the Abukir, but the 4th struck and she sank in a few minutes. There were only 32 survivors including the captain (R M Wolfenden) and two nuns rescued by HMS Jaguar, Codrington, Javelin and Grenade (sunk next day at Dunkirk Harbour whilst evacuating more BEF troops) after some 7 hours in the sea.

S34 was sunk in the Mediterranean on 17 May 1942 when a direct hit from the Malta batteries at Fort St Leonard forced the crew to abandon her and an Me109 was called to sink her to prevent her falling into Allied hands.
Leading Aircraftsman Albert Percy Whiteman Service No: 334948 was the son of Mr and Mrs G Whiteman of Broad Oak and the husband of Edna May Whiteman, of Hastings, Sussex. He died as a result of the torpedoing of the SS Abukir (NOT HMS Aboukir, an elderly WW1 cruiser).

He was 42 years old and a member of No 3 Military and Air Mission. It had its origins in the No 3 British Air Mission in France in 1939. It moved to Belgium and was attached to the Belgian Army General Staff. Its role was to report back information about the Allies forward positions to the RAF Advanced Air Striking Force in France and Belgium. It therefore was able to pinpoint the changing locations of the Allied and enemy forces to enable accurate bombing to slow up any enemy advance and to hit where needed most.

In November 1939, Lt Col George Frederick (Hoppy) Hopkinson was sent as the head military advisor to the Belgian General Staff. He then instituted a change in the reporting systemto focus upon greater use of wireless communications and mobility to provide "real-time" assessments from the front line. The collective code name for these missions was "Phantom".

It is likely that Albert was selected at that time as by December 1939 he was in France. He was qualified as a driver (motor transport).

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Peter Whiteman
10 Mar 2014

Hi Dave,

My e-mail is as follows
[email protected]
I look forward to receiving the info
Many thanks,

Peter

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Dave Hayter
9 Mar 2014

Hi Peter,

Only found this site a day or so ago. I am a descendent of the same whiteman family. I have various photos, information etc if it is of any interest.

Dave

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Peter Whiteman
3 Feb 2013

Hi Kevin,
I have foud out a bit more Infomation on Albert Percy Whiteman was a wirless operator
in the 3rd Squadron Air Mission.
Special Bantam if the make sence
Regards
Peter

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Kevin Regan
12 Jan 2013

Peter, I found some more information regarding the death of Albert Percy Whiteman during the Dunkirk evacuation. I was a bit puzzled as to how ground crew might be on the Memorial at Runnymede for those (mainly aircrew) with no known graves.
I've recently had a chap in the Balloon Section at Dover who was also on Runnymede, at first thought he might have been blown off shore hanging on to the balloon cable, but turned out he was in an Air Sea Rescue Launch attacked by German fighters during the attack on Dieppe in 1942.
Your Albert died about the SS Abukir, torpedoed by a German Schnellboot:-
WHITEMAN, ALBERT PERCY. Rank: Leading Aircraftman. Service No: 334948.
Date of Death: 28/05/1940. Age: 42. Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force.
Panel Reference: Panel 24. Memorial: RUNNYMEDE MEMORIAL
Additional Information: Son of Mr. and Mrs. G. Whiteman, of Broad Oak, Rye, Sussex; husband of Edna May Whiteman, of Hastings, Sussex.
One of 32 RAF aircraftmen who drowned on "SS Abukir" (694 tons) when it was sunk by an E boat 8 miles off Ostend. The Egyptian ship Abukir operated by the Khedivial Mail Line (KML) came under British flag early in the Second World War and was managed by the General Steam Navigation Co. She was torpedoed and sunk by the German motor torpedo boat S-34 on May 28th, 1940, in the North Sea.
On the night of May 28 to 29 the British lost two transport ships: the Thuringia and the Abukir. Abukir left Ostend where it had evacuated 210 British troops and RAF servicemen, and an unknown number of Belgian Air Force personnel and British nuns from a convent near Brugges to cross to England. It was sunk by the Schnellboot S-34 under the command of Oblt.z S. Obermaier.
The attack began a few miles off the WESTHINDER buoy, three torpedoes were fired by the Schnellboot which missed the Abukir, but the 4th was struck and she sank in a few minutes. There were only 32 survivors including the captain (R M Wolfenden) and two nuns rescued by HMS Jaguar, Codrington, Javelin and Grenade (sunk next day at Dunkirk Harbour whilst evacuating more BEF troops) after some 7 hours in the sea.
S34 was sunk in the Mediterranean on 17 May 1942 when a direct hit from the Malta batteries at Fort St Leonard forced the crew to abandon her and an Me109 was called to sink her to prevent her falling into Allied hands.

Hope that it is of some interest!

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Kevin Regan
30 Dec 2012

Pleased to have been of some help! Are any of the Whiteman's I listed related?
HNY, Kevin

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Peter Whiteman
29 Dec 2012

Many Thanks Kevin,
That's helps me with my quest.
Regards,
Peter Whiteman

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Kevin Regan
28 Dec 2012

Hi Peter,

The Whiteman family lost another member in Round Two:-

WHITEMAN, ALBERT PERCY. Rank: Leading Aircraftman
Service No: 334948. Date of Death: 28/05/1940. Age: 42. Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force
Panel Reference: Panel 24. Memorial: RUNNYMEDE MEMORIAL
Additional Information: Son of Mr. and Mrs. G. Whiteman, of Broad Oak, Rye, Sussex; husband of Edna May Whiteman, of Hastings, Sussex.
.. so now you need to find the link between James and G Whiteman....

Of course, if your Tree has a branch in Hove then you've another...
WHITEMAN, MONTAGUE AMBROSE. Rank: Corporal. Service No: 1825. Date of Death: 06/03/1917. Age: 28
Regiment/Service: Australian Infantry, A.I.F. 25th Bn.
Grave Reference: III. A. 10. Cemetery: ADANAC MILITARY CEMETERY, MIRAUMONT
Additional Information: Son of Elizabeth Whiteman, of 46, Sackville Rd., Hove, Sussex, England, and the late William Whiteman.

The 7th Battalion was the first Service Battalion of Lord Kitchener's New Army to be formed in the Royal Sussex Regiment, and indeed one of the very first in the whole of Kitchener's Army. It began recruiting at Chichester on 12th August 1914 when,

"... the scene for the following fortnight almost baffles description. A depot filled beyond capacity with recruits and more arriving every few hours... all joyfully expecting to be immediately issued with rifle and bayonet and sent to France."

All the original recruits were given a 'G' prefix to their Regimental Number, which began at 1 to around 1200.
The 7th Battalion landed at Boulogne on 31st May/1st June 1915.

The Albert Communal Extension
Albert was held by French forces against the German advance on the Somme in September 1914. It passed into British hands in the summer of 1915; and the first fighting in July 1916, is known as the Battle of Albert, 1916. It was captured by the Germans on the 26th April 1918, and before its recapture by the 8th East Surreys on the following 22nd August (in the Battle of Albert, 1918,) it had been completely destroyed by artillery fire.

The Extension was used by fighting units and Field Ambulances from August 1915 to November 1916, and more particularly in and after September 1916, when Field Ambulances were concentrated at Albert. From November 1916, the 5th Casualty Clearing Station used it for two months. From March 1917, it was not used (except for four burials in March, 1918) until the end of August 1918, when Plot II was made by the 18th Division.
Battle of Albert. 1-13 Jul 1916, including the capture of Montauban, Mametz, Fricourt, Contalmaison and La Boisselle.

My guess is that James died on the first day of the Battle of Ovilliers and did not linger from wounds inflicted some days before, if that can be any comfort.

Furthermore, although the 7th Battalion landed in France at the beginning of June 1915, James's Medal Index Card shows that he actually was in France as a Lance Corporal well before that date, on 4th January, and thus just missed out on the 1914 Star, being entitled to the 1914-15 Star as L/Cpl and British War and Victory medals as a Private. Clearly he was a man they needed in a hurry, and good enough to deserve the appointment to Lance Corporal.

Hope that helps join the dots!

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Peter Whiteman
29 Nov 2012

Looking for anything to do with the Whiteman's of East Sussex
My Grandfather who was James Whiteman killed on the Somme on th July 1916 lived in Netherfield Can't find a link with the Whiteman's of Rye Can anybody help please Regards
Peter J Whiteman

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